Delain has been a great part of the symphonic metal stage for the past 22 years. Just when the pandemic hit the world, the band announced their split up and left the fans wondering what is going on and will we see Delain live on stage again.
Fortunately, Martijn Westerholt, the founder of the band, was not done with music and the new members of Delain were soon a fact. We saw them this year at Midalidare Rock In The Wine Valley but now the band has more exciting news - a new EP, "Dance with the Devil” will be released on the 8-th of November. We managed to sit down with the music genius behind the band - Martijn Westerholt and the bass player and artwork designer in Delain, Ludovico Cioffi. Read how they both got into the music industry, what TV show or a movie they would the soundtrack for and many other interesting stories:
- I would like to start with Ludovico and ask about the design for the covers and merchandise of Delain. Is this something you’ve always been doing on the side - graphics design? Or is it something you’ve started after being a musician?
Ludovico: Yes, I’ve been doing artworks and drawings since I was a teenager. Before I started doing music, I’ve always been a graphic designer. And by the time I started playing music and being in a band, my main focus on the graphics design shifted from normal customers to bands. I would say not more than 10 years ago, I shifted to bands and started designing merch and artworks. And now that I play in Delain, of course my main focus is graphic design for Delain, as it takes a lot of time. I’m super busy with the band so now graphic design is a side thing for me, which is cool because I love playing more than designing.
- Will you be doing the cover for the next album?
Ludovico: We always keep our doors open. It’s not like it’s a given for me to do it just because I’m in the band. We want the best result and we want the style to match the music. If the music goes in a direction where my design doesn’t fit, we will find a designer that will get the concept better. For now my designs fit which I am super happy about. Hopefully the next record and the upcoming stuff will be designed by me.
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- Does the design come after you’ve heard the music or read the lyrics? Or do you come up with them without hearing the music?
Ludovico: Absolutely the first way. I need context, I need to know the vibe of the music, what is the theme, what are the lyrics and when I get many inputs, I get the direction better and I can start drawing. That way I can be more accurate, I can put in pictures what I hear. And it’s fun to do. Sometimes it’s very challenging but when the result is there it’s super super satisfying.
- With the upcoming EP and hopefully a new album soon, can I ask - when you’re composing, do you listen to music? What is the process of writing the songs?
Martijn: In daily life all influences you get may inspire you. I listen to music mostly while traveling, but the moment it really starts to take shape is when I start playing the piano, start playing around and at a certain point, the melody sticks. Then I start playing around more until something else sticks. It has always been like that for me, it’s very abstract, but I just start playing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I can get cranky when I’ve been playing all morning and at the end I’m like “No, this is not it”. But I just simply start to play around, freedom in creativity is very important. It sounds cliche but it’s true. When there are no boundaries it can be very liberating to just start playing. That’s when surprises happen.
- Which is more important for you while writing - listening to your own heart and what you want to compose next or do you also listen to the fans and what they want to hear?
Martijn: Kind of both. We read and listen to what fans like and what they don’t like but in the end if you don’t write from your heart, for me anyway, I would be lost. Music is emotion. In the end, just follow your own creative path. I’m very specific with what I like and what I don’t like. For example I’ve heard people saying that a song is daring or someone saying that the same song is not daring at all, it’s safe. This is something that I can’t control, because I simply write what I want to write. And I don't care if it’s daring or safe. For example people can say that it’s safe but in the end it’s actually daring, because I don't care, haha. But it’s always interesting to see how people experience music, it has always been fascinating for me to see. Everything is in the eye of the beholder. And I really think it’s important that people recognize your style and your sound, that they can say “Hey, this is Delain, I can recognise it immediately.” I think it’s important, it’s a distinctive identity for your music. As long as it’s recognisable, you are on the right path I think.
- The question is for both of you: WIth all the AI talks and AI generated music, artwork and all, is there something that you wish hasn’t been invented, when it comes to music?
Martijn: There are times when I go back to the 90’s, the music and the style. It’s the time where I grew up and that’s why you can hear it in our music. I don’t know if the right word is “romantic” but I think back then, in a sense, there was more magic surrounding music. You buy the record and you go home and you listen to it, a vinyl or a cd, doesn’t really matter. And you go through the booklet while listening for the first time. There was a lot of appreciation for it. Now the consuming of music is so fast that it kind of lost a bit of the magic. At the same time, I don’t want to be this old, grumpy guy that says “Everything was better in the 90s”. Now you can be way closer to your fans, which is very cool. Personally I’m not the biggest social media lover, first of all because it takes a lot of time. I’ve always been focused on making music, not being a social media content creator. But at the same time, you can connect to your fans easier. Now with AI, I think it has certain advantages, you have to think “How can I use these developments in tech to serve me?”. For example, when I write vocal lines, I use an AI program where when I write a melody on the piano, I can program it so I can add a voice to sing to the melody, and that helps very much in the writing. You can envision it easier because you can actually hear it.
I saw this video where an American producer was saying that nowadays there are barely any bands in the top 400 charts.. If there are bands, they most likely started their career before the 2000s. He could count only 3 bands within these 400 charts, that were bands formed after 2000-2010. The rest are only solo artists or dj’s. So the concept of a band, in the top charts, is also not happening anymore, and that’s sad.
- Why do you think it’s much difficult to be a band after the 2000s?
Martijn: Because from the big record’s company point of view, it’s much easier to market one person as an artist than a whole band. It’s cheaper, you only have to focus on one person. Second, sometimes bands have fights and bands split up. I can talk from experience here. But a lot of bands go through this. When there are a lot of people you work with, something like this can happen.
Another reason, songwriters start writing music for other artists as well. They simply ask good songwriters or producers to write for another artist and it’s just easier for the industry. Of course there are still bands in the metal community, I’m very happy to be in the metal community, but I think these are the main reasons.
- You mentioned bands splitting and going their separate ways which happened to you a few years ago with Delain. What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned while being in a band? What’s the thing that stuck out the most and you can give as advice to another band?
That’s a good one. I’d say - be open to what other people like and want, but at the same time, keep following your course and do not deviate from that. Because if you do this, at some point you get very unhappy. When you work with people, the expectations and perspectives of people might change. They also develop and change through time, and their desires and wishes change as well. At some point it might turn out that it’s just not compatible anymore, and you simply need to have an open talk about it and see what’s possible. In my case, with all my power I just wanted it to work. But sometimes you just have to say “I’ve always been doing this, this is what I want to do, if you want to join me - great, fantastic, I’m so grateful that we can do this together”. But if it doesn’t work, you just need to shake hands and part ways. It’s like if you’re traveling with someone on a train. My exit is here, their exit is at another stop. But on the other hand, if you really want it to work, you have to talk about your creative desires so you can make it all work, if you can find this common ground. Before the split up, I’ve worked with Charlotte for 17 years! That’s a heck of a long time! That on its own says that it's possible to work for long times with people but things can change, just be open and respectful. But also, keep following your own heart. It’s okay to compromise but don’t go to a point where you are no longer in your comfort zone. Freedom in creativity is so important.
- Do you remember the first concert you attended? Was it a moment where you thought that you would like to be a musician and be on stage and perform in front of people, or were you like “No, that’s not for me.”?
Martijn: My very first concert was a concert where I had to play, so I can’t really answer this. That’s thanks to my brother. First I was in a school band, the same band where my brother (Robert Westerholt, Within Temptation) met Sharon (Within Temptation), I was in the same band after they left school. They started Within Temptation and I was asked by my brother Robert to join. So my first concert was one where I already had to play. That's already a different perspective, I was 16, I had no clue what’s happening. My fifth concert was at a festival called Dynamo Open Air, I think it was the biggest metal festival in the 90s. I was really nervous about that one.
And I remember being backstage with all these record company booths, networking there. And I sat down with Peter Steele (Type O Negative) and we ate a burger together. I knew Type O Negative a little bit but everyone was so new to me, I had no clue. But now, I can say that when I started doing music, I ate a burger with Peter Steele. That same day we played soccer in the parking lot with Moonspell. That’s my first experience in this music bubble.
- How about you Ludovico?
I remember the first concert I was at but at that time I was very young and it didn’t really make me feel like I wanted to do it. I felt like that reality on stage was very, very far from me. But when I toured with my band Nightland, we were a support band for Fleshgod Apocalypse on their European tour back in 2017. The first show of the tour was in Munich, it was a great show, sold-out and after the show we were loading the gear in the trailer. It was January and it was snowing, the tour bus was parked very far away from the venue and it was super super chaotic. And everyone was angry because we were late and they were all yelling at each other and in that exact chaos I was like “Wow, I want to do this in my life.” Because the feeling that I had on stage for some reason made sense with all the chaos, the effort and all the hard work that happened after the show. And at that moment I felt like this is the type of work I want to do for the rest of my life.
- I know Martijn is a big fantasy fan and a LoTR fan, but if Delain could do the soundtrack of any TV show or a movie, which one would you choose?
M: Indeed it would be a fantasy show. I think it would be very fitting. In my case it could be “The Rings Of Power” or the movie “Stardust” but it would be something I would absolutely love to do.
- Ludovico, how about you?
I don’t know about Delain but if I had the chance to write music for a movie or something, it would totally be something fantastic. That’s mainly because I love orchestra. For Delain, I don’t know, it must be something super cool.
